This here is a serious question, and I plan to give it a serious answer. Mostly.
Dear Cecily,
I’m a computer programmer, which is a very male dominated field and I work for a construction company, so DOUBLE whammy there.
I’m pretty good at holding my own, but damn, it gets harder every day dealing with the chauvinistic and sexist co-workers and even worse, bosses. I am constantly overlooked, my opinion is ignored and I’m basically treated as a light weight. I’m not. I’ve been doing this work for over 20 years and I’m GOOD at it.
Obviously, growing a penis isn’t an option (not that I’d want one) and kicking and screaming will only bring unwanted attention. So, what do I do? Continue flying under the radar (which has it’s advantages) and harbor resentment? Demand to be seen and heard? Find a new job? Or perhaps speak with Lorena Bobbitt and get her take?
Oh, and would it be unreasonable to set my boss on fire then next time he says “Good morning, pretty little lady”?
Thanks for your help!
– Rage Michelle
This sucks. Seriously, this totally fucking sucks and I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
I’m going to operate under the assumption here that you haven’t said anything to this dickwad boss of yours. That might not be true, I realize, but I’m just going to start from there. Because I completely disagree about the kicking and screaming. Kicking and screaming is sometimes the only way to go. It’s certainly not likely to get better if you keep quiet.
The very first thing I would do is state, very clearly, that calling you “pretty lady” is unacceptable. Don’t be angry when you say it, but look right into his eyes and say, “You’re not my father, or my grandfather, you are my colleague. I’d prefer you speak in a professional manner.” When he splutters – because he WILL splutter – and accuse you of being a hard ass or say, “But I’m just trying to be nice!” Just tell him it’s not nice, and you want him to stop. Now.
The next thing I’m going to suggest is something I learned from a woman that did yacht sailing competitively. Something men do is trumpet their achievements – and here is the key – even the achievements that are JUST PART OF THEIR JOB. Meaning, they blow their own horns for meeting just the basic minimum of the job requirements. Women do not do this. We just do our jobs, and maybe, if something really really really awesome happens, we tell a couple of people. But we don’t stand up and brag about how we completed a report that was due two days ago as if it was NEWS. Men do. Men that do mediocre work that manage to walk the delicate line between bragging and tooting their own horns have the APPEARANCE of being competent, reliable workers. This is why they get promoted for doing average work.
So start blowing your own horn. When you complete a particularly tricky bit of code, give a little “W00t!” when you do it. Stand up and smile proudly to the room and congratulate yourself for doing your job well. At lunch, talk at length about how much you accomplished. At the end of the day, list out what you’ve done and then talk about what you’ll be tackling the next day you’re in. Make a habit of talking out loud about what you’ve been doing. Stop being a worker bee. Start being a bragger bee.
Lastly, if you are feeling harassed in any way, you need to let human resources know. End of story.
That’s about all I got. Although I tell you, I want very badly to go to your job and kick some assholes in the balls. I really do. I’m so sorry that you’ve had to deal with this. If nothing else works, move on. Try another company. Good luck.
About Cecily Kellogg
Not sure I totally agree. It sucks to be you right now, agreed. And if you are being sexually harassed, report it (sounded from the letter like you’re dealing with a bunch of southern good ‘ol boys, though). But…
…you are a programmer. Part of the job is flying under the radar. You signed on for that when you got the degree. That is neither a male nor female issue.
The users are the ones who do the bragging (if you’re doing a good job) and the complaining (if you’re not) and more complaining (even if it’s not your file or your system or your whatever. It’s still your fault. LOL.) Document everything so that when the SEC (or whatever gov’t agency regulates construction financials) comes looking for you, you can show them what incompetent assholes you work for. Heh.
I’d be looking for another job. But keep in mind that if you want to get to 30 years in the industry, letting the people you do your job for brag on you, is the way you make yourself both respected and indispensable.
(I know this because my DH is a programmer with 30 years in the industry.)
At the end of the day, as long as the users are happy and you are satisfied with how you provided them what they needed, and when, then it’s probably a good thing to quietly begin a job search and make a graceful exit. Keep your logic skills and emotions separate. Good programmers who know their shit are in demand, and you probably won’t have to deal with sexist attitudes at the next gig.
Good luck!
Huh. Interesting! I still think women need to say something when they don’t like how they are treated.
Cecily, I love you, and I didn’t mean to imply in any way, shape or form that she shouldn’t somehow address the issue. I’m sorry if my reply sounded that way. If there is no HR department where she works, except the boss who says “Good morning, pretty little lady”, how is she supposed to complain? Fat chance it will do her a lot of good. In fact, I don’t know who you complain to if you’re working in a family-owned company or a very small office. It might be better if she wrote a letter about it? That way she’d have documentation that she brought the issue to their attention, instead of heresay?
It is a very sucky situation, and I feel for her.
Kicking and screaming is not an option. If you believe that they think you’re a lightweight now? Start screaming and blowing your horn, you’ll put a big ol’ exclamation point right next to lightweight.
Add that to the fact that you’re a woman working in a job category that has been decimated by the “new” economy in an industry that has been decimated by the “new” economy and you’re looking at finding a new job while defending a pretty bad reputation. No matter how good you are… Men talk… a lot… don’t kid yourself.
As long as your pay and benefits are on par with your colleagues, you’re not being physically assaulted or receiving sexually explicit comments, your best bet is to keep your mouth shut and look for another job. You can try getting a key to the old boys club at your next job
Twitter Name: Lisa Yates
I think the issue is that her pay and benefits are clearly NOT on par with her colleagues. That’s the issue.
And allowing comments that are diminishing even though they aren’t explicitly sexual is a bad idea, for not just her, but all women.
“Just be quiet and take it and be glad you’ve got a job” is hardly advice.
What I said might not be the nicest thing to hear, but it’s reality. You can cry all you want about it not being “good for women” but let’s get real, unemployment’s worse. If you depend on that paycheck then you shut your mouth and move on down the road when the opportunity arises. You adjust your personal boundaries for your next job and make them clear upon your arrival.
Companies these days are doing more and more to background new hires. Male or female. With 100 or more applicants for every job, they can afford to be selective. Tarnish a good reputation, for whatever reason, and plan on using that entire 99 weeks. It’s not about nice, it’s about reality.
Sexism will disappear when we are all the same sex. You can jump up and down, scream, cry, negotiate, legislate, and adjudicate but, at the end of the day it’s the individual, their reputation and their workplace. The electric company doesn’t give a damn if you’ve been wronged or not, ditto for the landlord or the gas company. It becomes a question of individual priorities.
Rage Michelle never specifically referred to wages or benefits, she stated that she was “overlooked”. Wages and benefits might be part of it, but there is no way for the reader to know for sure.
Twitter Name: Lisa Yates
This is one of those completely unfair things that sadly are still happening and are exceptionally difficult to stop. Why? Because when we say anything we are seen as whiners or bitches or crybabies. Men who want to behave in this way will find some way to make it your fault if you say anything. When it comes to the greeting from your boss, I think it is either a case of saying politely you don’t like it, if you feel that would work, if you think it won’t then perhaps making some just very, very slightly undermining comment to him might. How would he react if you were just SLIGHTLY condescending. I’m putting it that way because I don’t want you to say something that will land you in trouble but you are the one who knows the man concerned, you know how he will react to different things. Does he even know he is being condescending? If he does and is doing it on purpose your best option might be to rise above it. Yes that could be construed as putting up and shutting up but if he is looking for some reason to further undermine you, you don’t want to hand him the ammunition. Is there anyone in the organisation who knows everyone and could give you good, unbiased advice so that you get this issue sorted?
I really hope it works out for you.
Take care,
Lynn
Twitter Name: penbleth
I, too, work in an extremely male-dominate world. (To the point where for the first year I worked at my current job, I’d only worked with one other woman!) And it sucks. It sucks hard. I have some clients who take one look at me and decided that I am a useless waste of space and there is no way I will be able to succeed. I’m lucky in that I have fantastic co-workers who respect me for my skills, not my gender, and have my back when a jackass decides to hold my gender against me. Here are a couple things I’ve learned that may help. (I’m not saying that you DON’T do these things, just sharing for you and anyone else who may be struggling.)
*I NEVER shy away from a hard job. I know my limits, and if I think I may get hurt attempting something I have no problem stepping back and letting someone else handle. But I make sure that I’m the first one to start unloading the truck, and I sweat right along next to them. No one can say that I’m a little sissy girl who can’t hold her own.
*I swear, belch, and tell dirty jokes like it’s my job. I realize that this may not be appropriate in many work places, but in mine, the world is ruled by the crusty old road dog who drinks hard, smokes hard, swears hard, and talks in a way that would make Howard Stern blush. Because I don’t want anyone to treat me any differently, I try not to act any differently.
*I don’t put up with ANY of that “sweetie,” “honey,” “baby,” bullshit. Even if they don’t mean anything malicious by it, it’s condescending, and they would never use such a nickname on a male counterpart. I’m polite, I try not to be a bitch about it, but I’m very firm about it. Call me “sweetie” once, I’ll tell you it’s unacceptable. Say it again, you’ll get a sharp reminder. Use it a third time and I’ll start responding by calling you “Cock Monger.”
Don’t know if any of these thoughts helped, but I hope things get better for you. Stay strong!
Twitter Name: MonsteRawr
This goes right along with “you’re not a woman because you’re an engineer” and other comments I have gotten over the years.
As a veteran in the trenches (software engineer/manager for 23 years – geesh I’m old) I know how hard it is to be taken seriously. But comments like “pretty lady” are demeaning and not acceptable. Definitely need to address the boss on it and if that behavior doesn’t change, then to HR.
I do agree with Cecily on tooting your own horn. I hate doing it, but frankly if you rely on people to notice, they don’t.
Twitter Name: mommybytes
Hi,
Am I being too sensitive if I chafe every time my boss addresses e-mails to our all female department with: Hello Ladies! I know he doesn’t address all male departments with : Hello Men! The guy acts so superior to us, but this is really the only obvious thing he does to make us feel inferior. Thanks for your help.
Good luck, I am in the same field, not quite as chauvanistic environment.
I would have tackled the “good morning” thing a little differently, and instead of emphasizing the unacceptableness, maybe start with the “you’re not my father, that makes me uncomfortable.” and end with “I’d really prefer it if you just use my name. Good morning, Karen!” Or something like that. Point out that it would be really awkward if you started every morning by saying “Good morning big fella!” to him.
A lot of the guys I’ve worked with over the years aren’t assholes so much as they are (a) in a pattern (b) don’t realize that what they are doing is demeaning and (c) don’t know any other way. So by presenting them with a “X is a problem, the solution is Y” you can avoid the spiral of guilt and sputtering (or minimize it).
Interesting idea about the talking about your accomplishments. Hadn’t considered that much but I’ve had the good fortune of being the obvious lead on several successful initiatives. I don’t think it’s “part of being a programmer”. I’m a good communicator and it shows. I also keep a file of positive feedback that I get from clients, even if it’s just for my own reference. I’m also not afraid to ask people to share their positive feedback about my performance with my boss (he’s a new boss to me). Most people have been super happy to do that.
My advice is to think about your strengths and the things that set you apart from your co-workers and make sure you play those strengths. My experience has been that while it often takes more time for male clients to accept me, that they are often my most staunch supporters in the end.